Medical student in need of advice
posted in - Education, - Palmdoc |Johnny writes in:
I am a Final Year medical student in UK. I will be graduating in 2010 *fingers crossed* and unsure which route I should be heading to. I can stay and continue my foundation training here or head back home to do my houseman. The new ruling in UK is making us harder to get a post here after our foundation program and this is pushing me more towards going back home. Some of my friends here are telling me to work for 2 years in UK and get my GMC full registration before I go back Malaysia, but i wonder the importance of that.
Could you please kindly advice me on this matter?
Could you kind MMR readers please advise Johnny – especially those of you in the UK or trained in the UK. Should Johnny come back to do his housemanship or try to stay on?
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October 10th, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Johnny, as a UK graduate you can go into the Foundation programme with no problem. Although there are pressure groups trying to help non-EU doctors to get into the run through post-foundation programmes, as it stands your chances of success is still very slim. Remember even the British are struggling to get into training posts these days.
If you stay back and fight for your place, you may succeed but you may also linger on for several years with non substantial posts and end up back in Malaysia to start all over again, but at an older age.
YP, what’s your view??
October 11th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
In my opinion, get your GMC full registration. The foundation training in UK is recognised by Malaysia so there is no need to repeat your housemanship here. The housemanship training here is also variable depending on the hospital involved. Unless there are other confounding reasons to return, it might be wiser to finish your training there before returning.
October 12th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Sounds like serving the fellow Malaysian is really the worst and last options.
October 12th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
Serving under the bureaucratic Malaysian public health system is really the worst and last option.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Virtually none of my UK medical graduate friends here came straight home after finishing their studies. They will almost always opt to perform their housemanship here (in UK). One even takes persuasion from family members to finally decide that she is coming back. Most are sponsored by the government, I wonder if the government is doing enough to curb this trend and get them to work in Malaysia.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
These are what I called selfishness, doctors without dignity. Cheating taxpayer money for their own benefit. No different with those corrupted politicians. Malaysia is better without them. Most will try all out to stay in UK and if possible become the PR or even the British citizen. I wonder why those study in Indonesia or India never try to do these stunts.
October 13th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
“poor doctor Says:
October 13th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
These are what I called selfishness, doctors without dignity. Cheating taxpayer money for their own benefit. No different with those corrupted politicians. Malaysia is better without them. Most will try all out to stay in UK and if possible become the PR or even the British citizen. I wonder why those study in Indonesia or India never try to do these stunts.”
These are what I called jealousy and lack of grammatical education in English.
.. wait… you’re a doctor! yes!!!! Malaysia is much better with a doctor like you!!! Nobody can be more competent than u!!! hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 14th, 2009 at 12:27 am
Ya, maybe you are right. I am jealous and I think this is probably the reason why I deserve to be poor as my tax money is being used year after year to subsidy them in UK and being ‘punished’ for working under Malaysian health system.
October 14th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Poor doctor: Don’t generalise everyone. Many of us came back from UK, and we were on PM (PapaMama) scholarship; we didn’t use a cent of taxpayer’s money. We are still in government service long after compulsory service, even though government will only give us contract with little promotion compared to those in the service. I can only say that I am addicted to my patients.
Johnny: If you decided that you to stay in UK long term, then stay. If not, just come back. Then you will get to know the system better, and get over the culture shock faster. I am sure your lecturer didn’t teach you dengue in UK (neither have mine..:))
October 15th, 2009 at 2:04 am
Since I last blogged in the MMR about the requirement of work permit for non-EU doctors, there has been further changes.
It is now much more possible for non-EU graduates from UK uni to compete for the post-foundation training posts.
However, I am not sure how easy it is for a foundation doctor to score enough points to qualify for a Tier 1 visa. The BMA has pushed for the requirement of a post-graduate degree to be abolished as not many foundation doctors would have master degrees. Also, there were doctors refused visa on the basis that their bank balance went below £800 – ridiculous tick-boxes exercise by UK immigration to reject visa application.
The main problem now however is lack of training posts. This is further compounded by the fact that recruitment process is now streamlined and centralised. What this means is that there are far fewer intakes per year and if a junior doctor is unsuccessful for one application, he may have to wait for wee while for the next application. How does he survive mean time? A non-EU doctor therefore is under tremendous pressure to get into a training programme.
One of our foundation doctors, a Malaysian, managed to get into a training programme in radiology. Therefore it is not impossible. But Johnny, you would have to make difficult decision if your first application (post foundation) failed.
October 15th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Sian: My opinion only meant for those studied under public scholarships. Those on PaMa scholarships have every right to stay on.
It is not difficult to understand that most of the UK graduates intend to stay in UK because UK is a developed country, they pay better salary and British pound is more attractive than ringgit. The working environment is also much better and maybe training opportunity is better and more structured comapre to Malaysia. This is the reasons why most doctors are willing to work in Australia, Taiwan or even Singapore. The quality of life in these countries is also much better than Malaysia and if given the opportunity, they can even apply for PR and citizenship which maybe a dream comes true for them. This is why NONE of those Malaysian graduates from Indonesia, Russia, India, West Indies or other developing countries will have this problem. This is human basic instinct and we cannot blame them.
But to stay on knowing that their scholarship of RM 1 million is from tax payer money is legally, morally and ethically wrong. There is absolutely no reason for them to do so. They have signed the contracts or agreements and they have to honour it. However because of the inaction on the government part, I guess those who are under scholarships should take this opportunity to stay on knowing that the gov will not take any action. If the rakyat can validate a candidate who is proven to be involved in money politic, I am sure this issue will be acceptable to most of rakyat(except me).
October 16th, 2009 at 6:51 am
hi, i didnt mean to stir things up by making the comment previously. But as a UK student myself, I can clearly see this trend. Many opt to stay here to complete housemanship, but who knows, with the perks and advantage and everything, they will opt to stay longer and longer. Because I know a few doctors who have been here for quite some time.
I do not mean to express dissatisfaction whatsoever (after all they are my friends and acquaintances). But I am just very curious, how Malaysian government is treating this? Why is it that this has been taken very lightly? I sorta heard long time ago that a penalty was exercised before, but many chose to pay the penalty instead of coming back to serve government anyway.
My fiancee (final year med student in Msia uni) told me that many medical graduates from Malaysia uni almost always are prone to ‘bullying’ overseas med grads, esp because as we all know, they are not used to Malaysia system and even some tropical diseases and etc.
P/s: Apologies if I were to cause quite a stir and the lack of knowledge – for I am an engineering student who cannot wait to be home in Malaysia for good.
October 22nd, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Poor doctor: I am glad to have you as my colleague in Malaysia. A doctor like you make it all worthwhile for me to have given up my PR and promised consultant post in UK. Keep up the good work.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Johnny..it’s really up to what you want in life actually…It might sound a bit hard to get a training post in the UK, but we do hear stories of people manage to secure training places. So it is not impossible..If you want to avoid the housemanship in Malaysia, you can even work there for 2 years…but remember if your training is not completed. ie. you don’t have o&g or other compulsary training in your rotation you might have to do the whole thing again.. so plan your rotation really well..
I came back straight after my graduation and yes to ‘poor doctor’, you can’t generalize because people have their reasons. Learn to understand people first..after all you’re a good, ethical doctor isn’t? And dear Johnny, I may have work for just a bit more than a month, but the training in HKL, where I’m working is just as good as the training in the UK, probably even better…
April 10th, 2010 at 10:16 am
someone mentioned that the uk foundation training is recognised in malaysia. so if they do 2 years of foundation training, do they still have to come back for another year since the housemanship in malaysia is 3 years? (if i am not mistaken about the 3 years thing).